Wednesday, February 26 2025 13:00

ArmInfo. Below is an interview with Ambassador of Armenia Tigran Mkrtchyan to Financial  Mirror's "Off the Wall" podcast (Cyprus)

Host: Welcome to "Off the Wall". Our guest today-it's a privilege to  have with us, the Ambassador of Armenia to Cyprus, Greece, and  Albania, His Excellency Mr. Tigran Mkrtchyan. His visit to Cyprus  coincides, with the change of status, which doesn't happen very  often. We are very pleased to be informed that Armenia will be  appointing a new, and for the first time, a resident ambassador to  Cyprus. So, Ambassador Mkrtchyan will remain in residence in Athens,  with the responsibilities, covering Greece and Albania. Mr.  Mkrtchyan, welcome back.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you very much, Massis, for hosting me  again. Nice to see you again.

Host: Do tell us, we have a new ambassador for Cyprus. For Cyprus,  this is a historic event, and, we will be seeing a new, a fresh face,  Mrs. Inna Torgomyan, who I understand is a career diplomat, with, the  past few years, working as head of the Public diplomacy department in  the Foreign Ministry in Yerevan, in addition to other diplomatic  postings that she's had in the past. So, considering that, you are  leaving your Cyprus post, and focusing more on Greece and Albania,  what do you think this could mean for, Cyprus-Armenia relations?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Let me emphasize that this is a long-overdue  development, actually, because we have been talking about, or  discussing, the necessity of Armenia's presence in Cyprus on an  ambassadorial position, with an embassy, a resident embassy, for  three decades. A lot of my colleagues in the ministry, even  before-long before I was a member of the diplomatic community in  Armenia, had been discussing and talking about the necessity of  Armenia having an embassy, a resident embassy, in Cyprus.

And I know that this has been a topic of talk in the corridors of the  Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Cyprus as well, regarding  reciprocation in Armenia. And, fortunately, over the recent years,  these talks, were accelerated and got materialized, thanks to the  agreement between the two ministers of foreign affairs of Cyprus and  Armenia.

And I'm very happy that I also was as much contributing to this as,  as possible, and it happened. Cyprus appointed an ambassador who has  been in Armenia for already, I think, four, five months. Ambassador  Mavros Michalis was appointed in September if I'm not mistaken. And  then, yes, and, just recently, my colleague, career diplomat, a  friend, Mrs. Inna Torgomyan, was appointed as ambassador to Cyprus.  And she'll be arriving, I think, in the coming few weeks. And, she  will proceed from where we have, in a way, left our work, but on a  new, completely fresh basis, with a different status, a much more  enhanced status.  This was a necessity, as I say, long overdue.   Cyprus has been a very close friend of Armenia and Armenians for  centuries. And, of course, it was much expected by everybody in  Cyprus and in Armenia that this development would be materialized.

Host: Yes. Well, on a practical sense, there will be-I wouldn't say  rapid developments-but we will see things moving faster because  having a resident ambassador, you can get things done much faster and  going straight to the source. Certainly. And Cyprus, being as well as  Greece, where I see that you're very, very active in the Greek  political, cultural, and economic scene, does this also mean that the  already, warm and close relations between Cyprus and Armenia, will be  enhanced even further, considering that both through your experience  in Greece, your previous experience in the Baltics, and now, in  Cyprus, with the new ambassador, we will see, even stronger  relations, not only Armenia-Cyprus but Armenia-EU?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Very interesting question and very important,  actually, because Armenia and Armenian-European relations, right now,  are on a historic high, top level of relations. Never has, in the  past, the level of our relations been so intense and so close, and,  and on a qualitatively, definitely, on a very high level.

On various levels the developments have matured, of course, on the  political level, it's very important. We have, been actively engaged  in our cooperation with the EU within the frames of the CEPA, the  Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement, which was the  framework of our cooperation, but now we are talking already about  enhancing this, engagement, with the with the new partnership  agreement, which is being been negotiated.

Having said that, we should also emphasize a few other developments  that have happened over the past few years or few months. For  example, the ratification of the Rome Statute was very important, or,  the Europol or Eurojust agreements. Also, Armenia's joining of the  Common Aviation Area. Armenia's been granted with the European Peace  Facility, very important. The EU Mission of Armenia monitoring the  border areas with Azerbaijan, very important, which has been  prolonged for another two years. Just recently, it was done, and, and  despite the somewhat, not very much encouraging approach of  Azerbaijan, the EU had a united position on this and we have this  mission being prolonged. which is of utmost importance in terms of  also security for Armenia.

So, all of these are developments which are impossible not to take  into account. And, of course, the launch of the visa liberalization,  the VLD process, which hopefully will mature. I mean the negotiations  are to be conducted in the coming months, years, maybe, but hopefully  the sooner, the better, because, this will immensely contribute to  the people-to-people contact between Armenia and the EU. So all of  these are extremely important developments.

But also, let's take into account what has been happening, what has  been the view of the society. The various surveys that have been  conducted in Armenia over the past, several years indicate that the  Armenian society is very much, proving or showing, that the country's  moving in European direction, getting closer to Europe, let's say,  adhering to European values and European reforms.

Yes, so this is a very clear, very important message, which was  reflected in the past few months. There was a civilian initiative,  launched in Armenia about suggesting the government to launch a  process of Armenia's membership in the EU and the civilian initiative  got more than needed signatures. So, I think there was a need for  50,000 signatures, but they got within a very short period 60,000 and  this proposal was tabled to the government. The government discussed  and approved, and apparently, it was sent to the parliament for  discussion. And just two days ago, the parliament, in its first  reading, approved this resolution about the initiative.

Of course, this entails a lot of work, a lot of homework, a lot of  bureaucracy, but who says that everything is going to be easy? Nobody  says that it's going to be easy. We have to pass this route, yes, as  difficult as it may be. But I think this is for the welfare of  Armenians and the welfare and future prosperity of Armenia in  general. So, these are the developments that we need to take into  account. These are very important developments.

And, of course, I completely agree with you that, our bilateral  relations between Armenia and Cyprus and Armenia and Greece are  extremely important in this, in the dynamic processes taking place in  the relations between Armenia and the EU, since Greece and Cyprus are  essential partners of Armenia in the EU as well, very important  partners, big supporters of Armenia, in all discussions related to  Armenia within this institution.

Host: Well, of all your meetings in Cyprus, I'm sure that you've  always received a warm welcome, almost brotherly, both on a political  and diplomatic level. What do you take away from your, shall we say,  past, responsibility out of Cyprus? It's not just handshakes and a  pat on the back. I'm sure there has been a lot of contribution, a lot  of direction, a lot of assistance, helping in diplomatic and other  channels.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: As I said, Cyprus has been of immense support  to Armenia, in our relations. We have never encountered the word  "no". And this has been reciprocated. And Armenia has been always  standing by Cyprus, be that on bilateral or on international,  multilateral formats, discussions related, and topics related to  Cyprus. So I had already meetings with the President of Cyprus, the  Foreign Minister of Cyprus, the permanent secretary of the Ministry  of Foreign Affairs, and, the speaker, the President of the House of  Representatives, as well as the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs  Committee, and who is also the Head of the Armenia-Cyprus Friendship  Committee.

And, also I had one interesting meeting with the Cyprus Institute,  with which I will propose the Armenians to investigate more in terms  of enhancing cooperation in the scientific field with Cyprus. So, in  all those meetings, what I can underline as running as a red line was  that Cyprus is encouraging Armenia's reforms agenda, is standing by  Armenia's adherence to peaceful development of the region of the  South Caucasus, is supporting its initiatives, including its  initiative, for example, the Crossroads of Peace. But not only the  Crossroads of Peace. Armenia's stance is very much a constructive  stance vis-a-vis its neighbours, is welcomed, by the Cypriot  colleagues.

Ideally, we would imagine that our relations are of strategic  partnership level, yeah, but this needs to be materialized in the  future, in terms of further development of certain areas. There is a  lot of very constructive and healthy dialogue in the sphere of  defence sector, and I'm very proud about that. I'm very glad, to have  contributed in a way to this process, also linking with Greece.

So, there has been trilateral cooperation in the defence  sector-Cyprus, Greece, Armenia-and probably the defence sector  cooperation needs to be taken as an example of, in terms of its  action plans, annual meetings, regular, consultations:very intense  engagement. Yes, this could be taken as an example, and probably  projected into other areas, where we need to work intensely, be that  tourism, in which there is a lot of development, by the way.  

Host: Yes, recently, we've seen a lot of people just choosing Armenia as a  destination of choice, as opposed to just friends or relatives. True,  that's true.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Be that in, academic and, scientific research  cooperation, a lot of huge potential.  We see cultural, of course,  cooperation, new technologies. This is something that Cyprus prides  itself in, and also Armenia is very much proud of its achievements in  this sphere. So, we have a lot that needs to be materialized,  concretely, in terms of meetings, regular meetings, cooperation,  action plans, checking of the implementation processes, etc., so this  needs to be concretely done, as it is done, as I said, in the sector  of the defence.

Host: Okay, well, you also mentioned the Crossroads of Peace. That's  an interesting initiative. However, it could also be considered,  ironic in the sense that, a state in the Caucasus, which is quite,  fragile, is talking about Crossroads of Peace, the same way that  Cyprus happens to be in the Eastern Mediterranean. Cyprus has its own  issues, however, Cyprus is also located in a very volatile region in  itself. So, can you very briefly just tell us about the philosophy  behind the Crossroads of Peace?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: The idea of the project of Crossroads of Peace  was proposed by the Prime Minister of Armenia in October 2023, in  Tbilisi. There was Tbilisi Silk Road Forum, and the Armenian Prime  Minister made such a proposal. So, the philosophy of this, project is  that, the region, instead of being a hotbed of conflicts,  disagreements, wars, and, suffering, has the potential of becoming a  region, an area, a zone of cooperation, economic cooperation,  peaceful engagement, opening of transport routes-be this, railways,  pipelines, electricity lines, all communication routes that are  running through the region are basically intersecting in Armenia.  Armenia is in the center of the region.

And artificially circumventing Armenia, just, because, there are some  disagreements, let's say, or, hostility towards Armenia, is not  helping at all in making the region, something of peace or  cooperation. Therefore, Armenia's proposal is to, follow this  trajectory of cooperation, economic cooperation, which would also  contribute largely to peaceful understanding, between the countries  and cooperation between the countries.

Now, Armenia has no disagreements or problems with its two neighbors,  with Iran and Georgia. We have had traditionally very close  relationships, and the borders are still continuing to be closed with  Turkey, and borders with Azerbaijan need to be still fully  demarcated, and, a peace agreement needs to be signed.

Host: So, where are we on that, Armenia-Azerbaijan talks?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: I'll jump on that. So, Armenia proposes that,  let's welcome this initiative, the Crossroads of Peace, and,  contribute to not only the regional development, but it will become  sort of, a juncture for the bigger, international crossroads. So,  running from, further east, coming from India, from China, all the  way going to the west, through the Caucasus region, to the west, to  Europe, or to the Mediterranean, and from the south, where we are  talking about the Gulf, Persian Gulf countries, running all the way  to the north, to Europe, through Georgia, and to Russia, we're  talking about this connection.

So, the potential, of the crossroads, if they are realized, if they  are embraced, if the idea is impressed by all countries, are immense.  Thankfully there has been a very much, there has been a lot of  positive reaction to it, including, by the way, from, Greece and  Cyprus. Georgia and Iran have also reacted positively.

So, we need to ultimately, persuade our colleagues especially in the  east, and of course, Turkey can be of utmost importance in this. Once  everybody agrees, this will be a great idea which can be implemented.  But let's see how we, progress in terms of the peace agreement that  which is being negotiated between Armenia and Azerbaijan, as you  asked now. So, I will immediately jump on that.

Regarding the peace agreement what we have right now is that, there  is apparently a draft agreement which has been negotiated over the  past few years. 15 articles out of, 17, if I'm not mistaken, they  have been agreed upon. Two articles are not yet finalized. Armenia  has sent its version of these articles to Azerbaijan a couple of  months ago. We haven't had yet answers from Azerbaijan. So, this is  where we stand, roughly.  Of course, also very important is that the  demarcation and delimitation commissions from both sides, from  Armenia and Azerbaijan, are meeting, and, there is work going on in  this sphere. A lot needs to be done because only a very small part of  the border has been demarcated in the north, north-eastern part. So,  plus, there is also the presence, of EU observers, which contributes  to peace, but, unfortunately, we have heard from Azerbaijani side,  sometimes, very aggressive and hostile reaction to this mission,  which raises eyebrows because clearly. Recently the Prime Minister of  Armenia wrote an article, and one of the questions that he poses to  himself and answers is, "Is Armenia going to attack Azerbaijan?" Of  course not.  Of course not.

No one reasonable can even think that Armenia would be attacking  Azerbaijan. And, the Azerbaijani attitude of questioning the European  mission's existence within the territory of Armenia is raising a lot  of questions because the mission is not, doing anything against  Azerbaijan. The mission is, simply contributing to the safety and  security of the borders between Armenia and Azerbaijan. They are  neutral.  They are not working for Armenia or for Azerbaijan nor  against Armenia or against Azerbaijan.

So, there is no exclusivist agenda. It's rather engaging. And, we  would have, it would have been better if there was a similar,  mission, for example, in Azerbaijan. And initially, if I'm not  mistaken, initially, Azerbaijan right in the beginning, agreed to  hosting such a mission in 2022 when it was proposed, but then it  backtracked.

But this is not the most important thing. The most important thing is  the political will and need for confidence-building, whether  Azerbaijan will find in itself strength enough to move forward,  normalize relations with Armenia, sign the peace agreement, put aside  its aggressive, hostile rhetoric. The latter is very much concerning  because, for example the New Year message of their president, and  then later on in his January interview to media outlets, was very  alarming again. Because for some time there was more or less  refrained language vis-a-vis Armenia, but then once again, we heard a  very hostile and aggressive rhetoric, containing territorial claims  towards Armenia, questioning Armenia's sovereignty and territorial  integrity, and, interpreting historical events in their very  imaginative way, completely disconnected from the realities. It's not  constructive.

So this kind of rhetoric, and, constantly threatening Armenia, is not  constructive. It's not going to help. You don't choose neighbors. You  have the neighbors you have to coexist and cooperate. And, Armenia's  stance is not to reciprocate in terms of this polemics, not to  counter-argue. There are indeed so many counter- arguments that can  be put forward that, we can have a series of such, podcasts, and, we  won't finish with that, in terms of, discussing how Azerbaijan was  originated and how it developed, etc. It's not our business.

The task of the diplomats and the governments is to establish  relations and to cooperate to the welfare of the peoples, and not to  aggravate their suffering, and not to deteriorate their conditions,  but to ameliorate their conditions. This is the task of every  government, which is not to ensure its longevity, thanks to the  suffering of the people, the nationalistic feelings.

So, Armenians, as I said, Armenian government position is to, adhere  to the peace agenda, as much as possible. Of course, in peace-it's  like, tango, so you have to have a partner to dance with. If the  other side is constantly rebuffing, slapping, trying to humiliate,  you won't move, you won't move much ahead. So, we have to, be  cautious also.

And this is another issue, related to this last question that you  raised, because Azerbaijan has been questioning Armenia's, defence  reforms, questioning that Armenia doesn't have the right to buy any  types of weapons. And Armenia has been implementing defence reforms,  and, it has every sovereign right to it.  It's every country's  leadership's right and duty to make sure that the security of its own  people is guaranteed, is ensured, and, and for that purpose,  acquisition or purchasing of any defensive systems or capacities is  an inherent right of every country.

So, questioning that right, or appealing that Armenia should be  disarmed, as if "Armenia should be de- Nazified", as if Armenians'  state is "ingrained in Nazism". These are, very, very concerning  comments, and I hope those who make such comments don't believe in  those comments.  So, it's our right, Armenia's right, of course, and  duty to be as resilient as possible, and this is normal.

We are not raising the question, why has Azerbaijan since 2020, been  arming itself, yeah, in very accelerated mode acquiring, a lot of  weaponry, very advanced offensive weaponry, from around the world,  and not from one direction, and continuously and consistently? And  why? And if you are doing that, why are you then questioning if the  other side is trying to make sure that its survival is not  questioned? So, this is simple logic.

Host: Well, it has to show signs of goodwill, such as the ongoing  case of, Armenians who are still held captive and on, trial, in Baku,  captive from Nagorno-Karabakh, and, that has to be shown to the  world, whether it's in a fair and transparent way, in order for  Azerbaijan to show some goodwill towards world public opinion.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: The world is witnessing, what's happening in  Baku. We're trying, with our statements, not to make the plight of  the prisoners worse. And this is what has become an issue in the  Armenian internal political discussion, into which I don't want to  get engaged, but everybody sees that the situation is getting worse  and worse. These are fake trials, and hopefully, they will be, ended  as soon as possible, and the detainees, the prisoners, will be  returned as soon as possible.

We see that there is a lot of suffering in their faces, in their  condition. Even with unarmed eyes you can see what's going on.  Unfortunately, we also know what's going on with the Armenian,  Christian heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is also something  extremely worrying, with UNESCO having no access to these area and  this vandalism is not going to help anyone, the Azerbaijanis as well,  and in the long term, it's not going to help at all.

Host: So, goodwill gestures have to come, from that side, on a  diplomatic, legal, and, so many other levels.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Absolutely and Armenia is extending its hands  of cooperation, is trying to not to exclude any topic. All topics are  being discussed. Every topic is being discussed, and, we are not  running away from any conversation on this topic. Simply, not  everything can be publicized, and not everything needs to be sent to  the press, including, in the case of, the prisoners, as well as the  cultural heritage. So, these topics are discussed, but it's, it's  another matter how successful or how impactful these discussions are:

Host: So this also shows the necessity of how much not only Armenia,  but in general, the Caucasus, needs to have peace, and peace has to  become priority, and to move away from hostilities, in general, not  just small skirmishes or events or on a diplomatic or political  level, a general concept of peace, in order for the whole area, as  you mentioned earlier, for the whole region to, move forward.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Sure. This zero-sum mentality that, my  opponent's loss is my victory, which has been, dominating the  political mindset of some of the leaders in our region. This needs to  be erased. And we need to do everything that a win-win situation  would be beneficial to everybody.

We have seen suffering for a very long time. We can discuss the  sufferings. These sufferings are still going on. There are still,  more than 120,000 Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians refugees in Armenia. So,  these are topics that need to be, of course, discussed as well. But  in an engaging manner, and with the hope that we can reach some sort  of an agreement, without undermining each other constantly and  without threatening at least our mutual existence. From the Armenian  side, there is no such threat against Azerbaijan. So, let's be clear  about that. What we need to do is to bring Azerbaijan more to a  constructive field.

Host: So, 50% of the work of, building peace, has been achieved, or  is on that path. It's just that the whole region has to adopt, the  concept of peace, will, and confidence.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Most of the agreement that we're talking about,  the peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan, I mean, most of  the articles have been agreed upon. So, it's not, if we're talking  factually, it's not 50%, it's even 90% of the text that has been  agreed upon. And Armenia was proposing, or is proposing, to sign the  agreement on the basis of the agreed-upon articles but Azerbaijan is  not up to that.  So, it hasn't yet agreed to this proposal and is  trying to drag on as much as possible. Let's see. I mean, it's an  ongoing process. I cannot comment too much because I'm not involved  in these negotiations personally.

Host: But a lot of the burden falls on the growing diplomatic  community of Armenia. What Armenia needs to have is a clear voice  within the EU, within, within the rest of the world.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: And our task in this case, my task here is to  enhance, was to enhance Armenia- Cyprus relations, and to continue  this work with the Greek side also, which is, which has been  progressing.  And I hope that the results are good, or will be good.  Let's see. This is a continuous work, and, at no point in our career,  we are saying that "that's it, that's sufficient". It's never  sufficient. The diplomatic relations is a process, or are a process,  which are being built on constantly by, on your successors' work, and  on adhering to, or passing it to the successors.

So, the predecessors, successors: this is a process. This is a long  process. It's an ongoing process. You have to take into account what  you have gotten, and you have to also pass on what you have done to  your successors. This is part of our work.

Host: Well, 2025 will be interesting, to say the least. Hopefully,  it'll be a year of developments and progress in many areas, as many  as possible. Your Excellency, once again, thank you very much for  being with us and for this very informative talk.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you very much once again for hosting me,  and looking forward to seeing you again.