Wednesday, March 6 2024 12:46

ArmInfo.Below is an interview by French Ambassador to Armenia Olivier Decottignies.

Alain Boinet: Mr. Ambassador, thank you for answering our questions  for the online magazine D‚fis Humanitaires. You are French Ambassador  to Yerevan, Armenia. My first question concerns Missak and M‚lin‚e  Manouchian who entered the Pantheon on February 21. It is a strong  symbol to salute the memory of a resistance fighter who fought with  his comrades for our country during the war and who paid for it with  their lives. What is the significance of this event?

Olivier Decottignies: Thank you very much. It is first and foremost a  French event, a Republican event, a national commemoration. But it is  also a Franco-Armenian event in that the leader of this group of  foreign resistance fighters, who are honored in the Pantheon, was an  Armenian. Missak Manouchian was a survivor of the 1915 genocide, he  experienced the orphanages of Lebanon as a child, then he arrived in  France as an adult. He is therefore a multifaceted personality, at  the same time Armenian, communist activist, volunteer in Armenian  charitable organizations, resistance fighter, poet, worker. Through  him and his wife M‚lin‚e, who was also a member of his network and  who rests alongside him in the Pantheon, the entire Manouchian group  as a whole is honored. A group in which there were not only Armenians  - it included Italians, Hungarians, Poles, Spaniards. Many of them  were Jews. It is the contribution to the Resistance of all these  foreigners who died for France that is recognized.

Alain Boinet: The Armenian Prime Minister, Nikol Pashinian, proposed  at the end of January that Azerbaijan sign a non-aggression pact  which would anticipate a global peace treaty. On February 13, 4  Armenian soldiers were killed by Azeri fire in Syunik province.  President Ilham Aliyev regularly makes bellicose statements. How can  we understand this attitude and what can be done to preserve peace in  the South Caucasus?

Olivier Decottignies: The situation which prevails between Armenia  and Azerbaijan is still a situation of armed conflict, since we are  talking about negotiating a peace treaty. This conflict regularly  gives rise to incidents along the lines of military contact.  Moreover, these lines of contact do not correspond everywhere to the  outline of the border itself, since Azerbaijan has militarily  occupied, since its offensives of May 2021 and September 2022, entire  sections of the sovereign territory of Armenia. There are  negotiations that have been initiated in different formats. These  negotiations today are no longer making substantial progress and this  explains the concerns, not only of the Armenian authorities, of  France, but of all those who work for peace. The statements by  President Aliyev to which you refer obviously contribute to this  concern.

Alain Boinet: One of the reasons mentioned by Azerbaijan is the  passage between its territory, to the east, and Nakhitchevan, to the  west, which is Azeri and which is separated in some way by Armenia  and his province of Syunik. For the Armenians, what is the solution  to allow passage between these two parts of Azerbaijan? And why is  this not happening?

Olivier Decottignies: The proposal that the Armenians are making, not  only to Azerbaijan but to all the states in the region, is to find a  traffic regime, which the Armenians have called "peace crossroads." ¯  This is an initiative that was launched last October by the Armenian  Prime Minister, from Georgia. It does not only concern Azerbaijan and  Armenia, but aims to integrate all neighboring states, by  facilitating movement in the region under certain conditions:  freedom, reciprocity, equality of these states and respect of their  sovereignty. It is a formula which has the merit of being able to  bring together all the States in the region around common interests  and clear principles. This formula has the support of France.

Alain Boinet: So why isn't this happening?

Olivier Decottignies: The discussions have several aspects. Including  a part which is essential, when you want to be at peace with your  neighbor, which consists of determining where one country begins and  where the other ends. The delimitation of the border is not the  subject of an agreement between the two States, not only on the  route, but on the method, and in particular on the references which  would be used. The key principle is that of the Alma-Ata Declaration,  which provides that the borders of the states emerging from the  Soviet Union correspond to the administrative boundaries of the  former Soviet republics. It is a principle which commits both Armenia  and Azerbaijan, which the two States reiterated in Prague in October  2022, thanks to the mediation of President Emmanuel Macron. Then, to  proceed with the plot, you need a reference frame. This reference is  provided by maps from the Soviet era. There is currently no complete  agreement between the parties on which set of cards should be based.

Alain Boinet: Does Armenia agree with this card game? With the  borders as they were defined at the time?

Olivier Decottignies: Armenia adheres to the principles of Alma-Ata.  But these principles are not only imposed on Armenia, they are also  imposed on Azerbaijan as well as on all the post-Soviet states which  subscribed to this rule at the time of the breakup of the Soviet  Union. . We are talking about a time when administrative boundaries  existed, but had no more physical manifestation than the boundaries  between French departments or regions.

Alain Boinet: Armenia's neighboring countries are therefore Russia,  Azerbaijan, Turkey, Iran, Georgia.  What is the attitude of these  countries in this situation in the South Caucasus, in this tension  that you just mentioned? What is their position in relation to  Armenia? What can more distant countries like France, member  countries and the European Union, India, Greece, the United States,  India do who also feel concerned by the issues in this region?

Olivier Decottignies: It is difficult for me to express myself on  behalf of these countries that I do not represent. On the other hand,  I have regular dialogue with the Armenian authorities and I can try  to explain to you their situation.

Armenia has noted on several occasions, in particular in May 2021 and  September 2022, that the security guarantee historically provided to  it by Russia, and which in principle binds Russia within the  framework of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (editor's  note OTSC), had not played. She also realized in 2023 that the  Russian peace forces which had been deployed in Nagorno-Karabakh as  part of the 2020 ceasefire agreement, concluded under the aegis of  Russia, had remained the gun at the ready when the Azerbaijani  offensive was launched against Nagorno-Karabakh.

In fact, Russian soldiers only left their barracks when it came time  to disarm the forces in Nagorno- Karabakh, as provided for in the  ceasefire agreement that the de facto authorities had concluded with  the government. Azerbaijani. There was therefore an Azerbaijani  offensive against Nagorno-Karabakh, carried out with the support of  Turkey, but also with the complicity of Russia, and which resulted in  the massive and forced departure of almost all Armenians from this  territory. - more than 100,000 people - who are refugees in Armenia.

Therefore, Armenia seeks to diversify its partnerships in the field  of security. To do this, it turns to more distant states, such as  France, with which a defense relationship is developing, which we  assume, in terms of equipment, training and advice. And France, by  choosing this defense relationship with Armenia, has broken a taboo,  since it is the first NATO country to provide defense equipment to  Armenia, which remains a member of the Organization of the collective  security treaty. In the same spirit, Armenians are also turning  towards India. And after the French Minister of the Armed Forces on  February 23, the Greek Minister of Defense visited Armenia on March  4.

In another register, we must not forget Iran, which is an important  neighbor for Armenia, to the extent that Tehran has reaffirmed, on  numerous occasions, its concern that the Armenian-Iranian border to  the south of Armenia is not controlled by any state other than  Armenia.

Alain Boinet: The President of the Republic, Emmanuel Macron,  recently declared that France had a friendly relationship with  Armenia. Observers understood that there was an evolution there, the  affirmation of a particular relationship. Can you tell us more?

Olivier Decottignies: Proximity is not new, it is the result of a  long shared history, between the two States, but also between the two  peoples. Today, there is above all a very clear line, which is that  of the President of the Republic: that France's support for Armenia  is unconditional, complete and constant. This is the line that with  my team in Yerevan, under the authority of the Minister for Europe  and Foreign Affairs and with the support of all the state services  concerned, we are implementing.

Alain Boinet: Doesn't this create obligations in the current  situation?

Olivier Decottignies: This position of France is not declaratory: it  is translated into actions. In the humanitarian field, France was  present for the massive exile of 100,000 Armenians from Nagorno-  Karabakh with humanitarian aid which was increased to 29 million  euros for the year 2023, i.e. that is, more than any other bilateral  donor. France was the first to send emergency medical aid to Armenia,  the first to evacuate seriously injured and seriously burned people  from Nagorno-Karabakh to French hospitals.  France was also there on  the political level. She referred the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh  to the Security Council three times. At the European level it has  pushed for measures which were adopted by the Foreign Affairs Council  last November: on the one hand, the strengthening of the European  observation mission, whose numbers will double; and on the other  hand, the opening of discussions so that Armenia can have access to  the European Peace Facility. Finally, France was there on the  bilateral level, including, as we have said, with regard to the  defense relationship.

Alain Boinet: In this situation of tension, or even possible  slippage, which Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinian recently  spoke about on Armenian television, what can we expect from the  European Union, but also from the United Nations and other countries  in order to seek to avoid the risk of a possible conflict?

Olivier Decottignies: All member states of the United Nations are, in  principle, committed to respect, sovereignty and territorial  integrity of other members. This is therefore what we have the right  to expect from any State. There are obviously special  responsibilities of the member states of the Security Council, of  which France is a member.

Armenia wants to get closer to the European Union. Prime Minister  Nikol Pashinian said it in front of the European Parliament on  October 17: Armenia is ready to develop its relationship with the  European Union as far as the European Union is ready to go. Armenia  welcomed the prospect of membership in the Union which was opened for  Georgia a few weeks ago. She also held a cooperation council with the  European Union.

The European Union observation mission is a very good example of what  the European Union can do effectively and concretely. Having been on  the ground, on patrol with the mission, I was able to see that the  European observers are warmly welcomed, that they are greeted  friendly in the villages and along the roads, that their presence  reassures. They are proof, for these vulnerable and isolated  populations who live in military contact zones, that they are not  forgotten by the world. Beyond this role of reassurance, there is,  due to the presence of this observation mission, the possibility of  impartial information from the international community, which is  fundamental in a crisis of this nature. It helps dissipate the fog of  war.

Alain Boinet: Can we imagine that in the current context, this  mission would be particularly mobilized in the Syunik region which  seems particularly threatened?

Olivier Decottignies: The mission's mandate covers the entire  Armenian territory. She therefore has the possibility of going  everywhere. Its patrols primarily concern border areas and military  contact zones. The increase in power of the mission aims to have  sufficient personnel to increase patrols and Syunik is obviously one  of the priority areas in this context.

Alain Boinet: Do you think that the current fragmentation of the  world illustrated by the war in Ukraine, the Sahel or the Taiwan  Strait is a favorable moment that Azerbaijan could exploit by  attempting a military coup against Armenia, a country member of the  international community represented at the United Nations.

Olivier Decottignies: I do not know what the intentions of the  Azerbaijani authorities are and I have no contact with them. But what  I note is that in this fragmented, degraded international environment  that you describe, there have been several military episodes in  recent years pitting Azerbaijan and Armenia, or Azerbaijan and  Nagorno-Karabakh region, and that each time, Azerbaijan took the  initiative.

Alain Boinet: On September 19 and 20, a military offensive by  Azerbaijan chased 100,000 Armenians from their ancestral territory of  Nagorno-Karabakh or Artsakh located in Azerbaijan. How were they  received in Armenia? What is their current situation? And what help  does France provide to these refugees?

Olivier Decottignies: 100,000 people forced to leave their homes in  less than a week is no small thing.  Given the scale of this  population movement, the Armenian response, with the support of the  international community and in particular the support of France, was  satisfactory. In particular, we have not seen the formation of  refugee camps. Accommodation solutions could be found, with voluntary  individuals, with relatives, but also in accommodation requisitioned  by the State, whether hotels, gymnasiums or schools.  The immediate  response was, I think, up to the challenge. The outpouring of  solidarity was very strong in Armenia and the international community  was there. France played a key role in this response, since we were  the first donor of bilateral humanitarian aid to Armenia, with 29  million euros in 2023, thanks to the mobilization of the Government  and Parliament.

Now that this emergency phase has passed, the question of the  integration of refugees arises. This integration raises legal  questions, such as the choice of opting, or not, for Armenian  nationality. It also involves responding to very concrete challenges,  facing which we stand alongside Armenia:

The question of housing, that is to say not simply transitional  accommodation but sustainable housing;

The question of employment with a structure of the labor market which  was quite different in Nagorno- Karabakh from that of Armenia, with a  weight of the public sector and the agricultural sector which was  much greater;

The question of education, out of the 100,000 refugees, we have  approximately 23,000 children of school age who are integrated into  the Armenian school system but all this has a cost and requires  support;

Finally, a question which is far from being secondary, that of  psychosocial support. We are talking about a population traumatized  by nine months of blockade, a brutal military offensive, a forced  exodus. From a polytraumatized population because for many, this is  not the first experience of forced displacement. Some were driven out  in the late 1980s and early 1990s by anti-Armenian pogroms in  Azerbaijan. And for every Armenian, from Nagorno-Karabakh, from  Armenia or in the diaspora, there is, whether we like it or not, the  memory of the genocide. It is therefore a trauma which rekindles  others and which requires appropriate psychosocial support. This is  one of the axes of our humanitarian cooperation with Armenia, already  and for the months to come.

Alain Boinet: In France, humanitarian aid and development aid, apart  from the Crisis and Support Center of the Ministry of Europe and  Foreign Affairs and the French Development Agency, is essentially the  work of associations, foundations, local authorities What can these  actors do in Armenia today for those who are not yet present there  and what do you suggest to them?

Olivier Decottignies: These actors are already doing a lot. Armenia  is a land of decentralized cooperation.  There is not a single region  in Armenia which has not established, at the municipal or governorate  level, cooperation with French local authorities. And on the French  side, civil society organizations, diaspora organizations, NGOs are  mobilized and are present on the ground. We supported, via the CDCS,  Acted, M‚decins du monde, Action contre la Faim, who are hard at work  in Armenia with their Armenian partners.  Many diaspora organizations  have been active in the country since independence, or even before,  since the starting point of French humanitarian action in Armenia was  the earthquake of December 7, 1988.

The priority for organizations wishing to help Armenia and Armenians  is of course support for the refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh, under  the four main aspects that we mentioned: housing, employment,  education and psychosocial support.

At the same time, there is the need, in the situation Armenia finds  itself in today, to focus on the most strategic sectors and the most  exposed regions. This means the structuring sectors for the  territory, the economy, the resilience of Armenia and the border  regions, close to the lines of military contact. From this point of  view, there is no small subject or small project. A territory that  holds up is a territory where the population remains, therefore where  there are jobs, services which can - which must - also be medical,  educational and cultural services. I think that today the important  thing is to concentrate where we have the most impact and to act not  only in a compassionate way, but in a strategic way. You should  always think about Armenia with the map in front of you.

Obviously, all these organizations, these initiatives know that they  can find advice from the Embassy team:  our door is always open to  them.

Alain Boinet: How do you see the future of Armenia?

Olivier Decottignies: I see him looking towards Europe. This is the  meaning of the democratic trajectory that the Armenian people chose  during the "velvet revolution" of 2018 and which they have maintained  since then, through the ordeals. From this point of view, Armenia's  recent accession to the International Criminal Court is also a very  strong signal. However, turning towards Europe does not mean  isolating oneself from its regional environment. Building the future  of Armenia requires reaching a peace agreement with Azerbaijan but  also, more broadly, a modus vivendi which allows all the States in  the region to take full advantage of the strategic position that They  occupy, at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and the Middle East. This  is also why the resolution of this conflict matters to us, Europeans.

Alain Boinet: How would you like to conclude this interview?

Olivier Decottignies: I would like to conclude with an expression of  gratitude towards all those who form our relationship with Armenia  and whom I meet in France and when they go to Armenia: the  humanitarian community, civil society, the diaspora, the local  authorities, elected officials, French administrations.  Always, they  welcome me very favorably with a lot of ideas, a lot of enthusiasm  and a lot of commitment in developing this relationship with Armenia.  I believe that it is a great opportunity to benefit from this support  and there are few bilateral relations that generate such support.  From the bottom of my heart, thank you.