ArmInfo.In my opinion, the Karabakh problem could have two solutions: one - final, and one, so to speak, half-hearted. This opinion was expressed by the third President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan in an interview to "ArmNews" TV channel.
As the ex-president said, in 2014, when there was some tension in the Karabakh conflict zone, one of the heads of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairing states asked him directly: "Serge, can you honestly say what is your goal in the Karabakh issue? Do you want the problem solved or do you want to maintain the status quo>? "I sincerely said that I want to solve the problem, I do not want to shift it onto the shoulders of future generations." The question followed: "How can this problem be solved?", To which Sargsyan replied that he sees the final solution to the conflict as follows: Azerbaijan accepts that Nagorno-Karabakh is independent, recognizes the fact of independence of Nagorno-Karabakh. `` In this case, I return to Yerevan and assure my teammates that in this case we are obliged to return to Azerbaijan the 7 regions that made up the security belt, with the exception of the corridor that forms the land border with Armenia, which should not be the same as today, 2.5 kilometers, but sufficient for the safe communication of Armenia with Nagorno-Karabakh. Then I go to Nagorno-Karabakh, convincing my comrades in arms, the leadership of NK that this is the right decision. And when I get consent, we gradually begin to publicize this idea. Although there were no guarantees that it could be realized, "the third RA President said. "The second option is a half-hearted decision," Sargsyan continued, which is that Azerbaijan recognizes that the final status of Nagorno-Karabakh should be determined by the people of Nagorno-Karabakh without any time restrictions. "But it should be like this: Azerbaijan must accept this, the international community must confirm this. In this case, I, again, return to Armenia, I convince my teammates that in case of such a half-hearted decision, we must return five regions to Azerbaijan in order to have the intermediate status of Nagorno-Karabakh. Then, the same process - comrades-in-arms, the Karabakh authorities, "the former RA President said, adding that if Azerbaijan refused to recognize Artsakh, it would never get back either Lachin or Karvachar.
In other words, Sargsyan continued, the whole point of this option was that the period for returning Lachin and Karvachar to Azerbaijan was very closely connected with the holding of a referendum on the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh. "That is, both options that I spoke about simply flowed from the Madrid principles, the Kazan document. It is no coincidence that the Russian Foreign Minister, and the co- chairs, and the representative of the Russian Federation in the Minsk Group, Popov, have always stated, right up to this last statement, that any option to one degree or another corresponds to the Madrid principles of the Kazan Document, '' he stated. At the same time, Sargsyan assured that there was no so-called Lavrov's plan in documentary form. as such was not. What is called "Lavrov's document"? The second option, which I spoke about, that is, a modified version of the Madrid Principles - Lavrov proposed the Kazan document on behalf of the co-chairs, and there has never been such a negotiation process, in which any of the co-chairs separately proposed their ideas. All ideas were agreed upon between the co-chairs. And what is called the Lavrov document and the Kazan document is the only document, at least until 2018, that became a working document. And this document is now in the OSCE Depository. There was no other working document, "the third president said.
He also suggested that in the document that was handed over to the parties in April 2019, naturally, including the Armenian side, the response of the Armenian side, in all likelihood, was as follows: yes, discussions can be held on this document.
"That is, the co-chairs wanted to say that we handed over the document to the parties, received assurances that within this framework it is possible to discuss, come to an agreement, but one of the parties, and, as we understood, the Armenian side, later refused to continue negotiations.
Yes, I am deeply convinced that it was a phased option, because otherwise why would the Armenian side refuse from the package option? And why a phased version appeared is another topic for conversation. No, I can roughly imagine why this happened, but before that I want to touch on this again and for many people once again say what the batch option means, and what the phased option means. The batch option is when the parties to the negotiations, the parties who have reached an agreement, from the first to the last step, know what actions will take place. Starting with something that we end up with. And one of the most important features: in the package version, one of the parties, having received something, cannot turn the table over and say: , because compromises occur in a consonant, equivalent and, in case of refusal, you have no only gained, but you also have lost. Obviously, the package variant cannot be fully implemented at once, it is implemented in stages. The beauty of this package option is that you receive something, give something, receive something, give something? And if it stops in the middle, you do not find yourself in a situation that you have already given up your vital interests. And a phased option is when you give something, receiving something very unequal and a promise that in the future it may be good. What is "good"? It depends on how you evaluate it, "Sargsyan said. At the same time, the third president stressed that he was not only ready to sign the working document, but also exclusively agreed to remain the Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia to implement this option.
"Since it is clear that Azerbaijan was very reluctant to continue negotiations on such conditions, we came up with an option to have three documents. One document to sign with Azerbaijan, which did not fully satisfy our minimum wishes? The first point, when it comes to the free expression of the will of the people of Nagorno Karabakh, was formulated, as I said, as follows: the final status of Nagorno Karabakh is determined by the free expression of the will of the people of Nagorno Karabakh, which is legally binding and whose agenda was not limited by anything.
This last paragraph, the last phrase, categorically did not suit Azerbaijan. Why? Because the first two formulations fit into the framework of its Constitution, in addition, at the end, Azerbaijan could very calmly say: `` Yes, free expression of will, which is legally binding, but given the Constitution of Azerbaijan, there can be no referendum on the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Therefore, the idea was to sign a document with Azerbaijan without this last thought, about which I said: "the agenda is not limited to anything." In parallel, immediately have a statement of the co-chairing countries containing this phrase, and within a reasonable time frame have a UN Security Council resolution based on the statement of the co-chairs, "the former head of Armenia said.
He noted that this agreement had already been prepared in the fall of 2016, after the April war. "That is, this once again refutes the stupid idea that as a result of the April war we allegedly agreed to just return 7 regions to Azerbaijan. We do not exclude that someday we will publish these projects. I just want to always be correct. Within the limits of correctness, not in relation to people who consider themselves my opponents, but to the co-chairs. Patience always brings good results, good results. And I didn't say for 2.5 years what we were negotiating about until 2018, I didn't mind, but the time has come, and the Russian side officially, not in the form of an interview, but officially posted on the Foreign Ministry's website what it's all about:> - said Sargsyan without finishing the sentence.
At the same time, commenting on a post circulated online, where President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, on behalf of Ilham Aliyev, offers Sargsyan to take $ 5 billion from Aliyev for the return of seven regions to Azerbaijan, and in return he offers $ 6 billion in return for refusing these regions, Sargsyan noted that such a proposal was received more than once. "I just said I meant the following: Karabakh is not a subject of bargaining. We cannot offer our Motherland to auction. You cannot trade in all those people who gave their lives for a free and independent Artsakh. Do you doubt that if Aliyev had somehow miraculously agreed, we would not have been able to collect those six billion? I am sure that we would have collected in a very short time. I am sure that all rich Armenians, and not only the rich, would support me in this matter. Simply, my answer was not a joke, but a sharp one: if you want to bargain, I am ready to pay an even higher price, if your criteria are measured in money, I give a higher price, "he noted. To clarify whether Sargsyan considers it possible that this proposal was made to his successor, he said that he did not rule out this. , the third president of Armenia asked.
At the same time, he added that he does not understand why these authorities did not recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh in 44 days.
Touching upon the de facto recognition of the RA Prime Minister that Artsakh belongs with the phrase "Artsakh is Armenia, period," Sargsyan expressed his conviction that the statement was not addressed to Azerbaijan and the co-chairs. "Although both Azerbaijan and the co-chairs could and had the right to understand it this way. I understood something else. That this statement is addressed specifically to the people of Nagorno-Karabakh. What did he (Pashinyan) mean by this? He said: I am here the lord, the ruler, and I say whom you should elect as president. This became noticeable later, at the presidential elections. That is, he needed to get a puppet leadership in Karabakh so that in no way there would be even the slightest opposition in any issue, and he achieved his goal.
As a result, the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh has never been so humiliated, never so diminished, as after 2018. In the relationship between Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Robert Kocharyan, there was not even a hint of this. Then, when Robert Kocharian was the President of the Republic of Armenia, Arkady Ghukasyan of Nagorno-Karabakh, this did not exist. This was not the case when I was the President of the Republic of Armenia, and Bako Sahakyan was the President of Karabakh, "the former president continued. At the same time, Sargsyan is convinced that the RA authorities pursued goals of trying to return Artsakh to the negotiation process as an independent party: one goal was to play for time.
Referring to the fact that during the last war one of the three main principles of conflict settlement was violated - the principle of non-application forces and threats by force, however, the mediators ignored this, Sargsyan said in particular: "Yes, the principle was violated. And why should the co-chairs voice this, when one of the parties did not take into account what they said many times. When you secretly from the co-chairs secretly enter negotiations with Aliyev, when you say: "Put aside what you said, gentlemen, co-chairs, but I want it this way": I think we made a tactical mistake by talking about events and not showing evolution. That is, what happened after this capitulator began to declare that he was negotiating from his point of view, that everything was bad, that Karabakh should participate in the negotiations, etc. Those were words, but they became a document at the end of 2018, when, for the first time after ten years, the wording at an OSCE ministerial conference, the three principles were changed to "fair resolution". The third President of Armenia also called the statements of the RA Prime Minister about the acceptability of the decision for the three peoples as nonsense. mean? That is, we are two peoples with Karabakh? Are we different peoples? After all, each such statement, at first glance, is acceptable, with modern, in their opinion, formulations: you can pack any stupidity like that. We saw what happened as a result.
Referring back to your question. If you renounce principles, including the principle of non-use of force, what were the co-chairs supposed to do? If you do not want this principle to exist, then, probably, with the help of others, you understand that this is very important, you try again to say that the Madrid principles are applicable, then again recklessly put forward some Munich principles, how can the co-chairs orient themselves? Difficult to navigate. I am not making excuses for anyone, I am simply explaining the situation, "Sargsyan noted, while also criticizing the statements of the Armenian Prime Minister about the constructiveness of Azerbaijan.